26 // [Part I] Can my child have seconds (or thirds) when they haven’t eaten everything else yet?
[Part I] Can my child have seconds (or thirds) when they haven’t eaten everything else yet?
3 clues the parent is more of the problem than the child’s actual request for more.
The concept of "more" or allowing seconds can be tricky to navigate, particularly when your child hasn't eaten at least a little of everything they were offered. As a mom, I understand not wanting my own picky eaters to fill up on bread or fruit when there are many other nutrient-dense options available. But as a dietitian, I know that allowing my child to decide if/whether and how much they eat (from the foods offered) is imperative to establishing a healthy relationship with food.
That's why in this episode, we will dive into three clues that the parent is more of the problem than the child's actual request for more at mealtimes. These are common responses and often feel counter-intuitive to not do in situations like your child asking, "Can I have seconds?"
So come hear me out for part I of III on the subject of allowing more at family mealtimes.
Listen to this episode of The Veggies & Virtue Podcast now!
Full Episode Transcription
Please note this a raw transcription. If something doesn’t read correctly, toggle to that timestamp in the show so that you can listen in on what was actually being said!
[00:00:00] One of the number one questions I'm asked by parents is can my kids have second? And what the mom or dad typically means is not, can my child have seconds of the foods that they're still learning to? Like. The vegetables or the proteins or the foods that we wish our kids wanted seconds of often, but that are rarely the foods that they're actually asking for second set.
[00:00:21] Instead, what we often want to know is if we're offering a level, like it, learning it meal, being foods that our child loves foods that our child maybe likes and foods that they're still learning to. Like, and before they even touched the, like it, or the learning at foods they're already asking for additional limit foods, is that.
[00:00:41] Is it advisable? How do we handle that? How do we know that they're not just going to fill up on pasta or fruit or milk or whatever it may be when there's all these other nutrient dense options available. And yet they're choosing not to eat that. So how do we handle this? This question came from a specific mom, but I have heard it from so many of you.
[00:00:59] So in today's episode and in the upcoming next two episodes, I want to really dive into the dynamics at play here. So that you understand what my advice is on this situation and how you can best be equipped to handle it, knowing that it is not isolated to just this one mom's question. But it is one that I hear so often and know that it is one that many, many families can benefit from learning.
[00:01:29] Hey, mama. I'm Ashley, and welcome to the veggies and virtue podcast. In this podcast, you will find simple menu ideas, kitchen, organizational systems, spelled out for mom life and feeding tips and tricks that are both evidence-based and gracious. I believe that you can find flexibility when it comes to feeding your family so that you can feel calm, capable, and connected in the kitchen as a registered dietician and Christian mom of three myself, and want you to break free from the mealtime battles and to feel equipped while feeding your kids all day long, pull up a stool at my kitchen counter.
[00:01:58] And let me pour you a cup of coffee and say a quick prayer for you. It's time to chat about the mealtime messes moments and ministry of motherhood.
[00:02:09] Hey, Ashley. I had a question in regards to giving my kids seconds. They, my question is related to, you know, we sit down for dinner and they have their plates and they'll eat all of the food that they're really loving. It may be just a little bit of the other foods, but then ask for more. The food they love.
[00:02:30] So last night we had pasta salad with all kinds of veggies and different things in it and chicken and different things. And my three-year-old quickly ate all the noodles up and asked for more noodles. So I'm a little confused how to handle seconds. And then my six year old will eat his whole plate and then ask for more of everything.
[00:02:50] So How do I handle that? Do I give seconds? Do I not give seconds? If you haven't eaten all of it or haven't tried? I don't know. I've just kind of confused and I keep thinking of your podcast every time I'm met with this question at the dinner table. So any help would be great. Thank you. I'm so glad that this small hopped on over to my site, you can all leave me a message like this.
[00:03:17] At any point, you have a question that comes to you, especially if it's just a feeding struggle that you find yourself facing and you think, goodness, what should I be doing about this? What would actually say, hop on over to www.veggiesandvirtue.com backslash. Hyphen Ashley, and you'll get the button right there to leave me a voicemail.
[00:03:37] And you can just leave me a message with whatever question you have. And I love answering these on the show. Particularly this question is one of the most common questions I get, and that is care. My kid has. Can they have thirds? What about if they're asking for seconds or thirds before they've touched the, their items on their plate?
[00:03:54] And I want us to look at answering this broken down into three parts in each of the three parts is going to have three parts. So stick with me for three, three, and three. The first thing is going to be, we're going to talk about three things not to do when you're evaluating. Should I give seconds? Is it okay for them to have.
[00:04:12] It is really easy for our automatic response to be one of these three things. So we're going to go through that. And the next episode is three things that I would encourage and advise you to feel at Liberty to do if it fits your family's situation. And when it is appropriate to limit additional servings or allowing your kid to have more.
[00:04:32] Lastly, we're going to cover three things that you can do to support this dynamic in your family, to help you not do the first three things. And. No, how to do these other three things that will help foster that overall feeding environment and ultimately feeding relationship that you're looking to create meal after meal.
[00:04:52] So as we first look at the dynamics at play, and in this situation, the mom has already decided what meal is being offered. She mentioned that they were having like a pasta salad with some chicken and some other things. And she had decided what she had decided when it sounds like they were probably eating as a family in this specific situation.
[00:05:13] And she decided where, so let's just say they're eating at the counter and the family table or something like that. So technically the mom has already done her job in this feeding relationship. She has decided what, when and where the meal is being offered now is where she begins to hand the Baton over to her children to decide if, whether and how much.
[00:05:34] However family after family, I see this being where the Baton just drops and maybe the parent feels like they need to pick it up because they have done their job, but we can face so much turmoil at the table when our child is deciding if weather and how much they want it. And yet we, as parents are uncomfortable with their choices, we are uncomfortable with the fact that they love a given love at food sometimes.
[00:06:02] And that may be the only food that they want to choose at the table. However, if we overstep this boundary and we hand off the Baton and then fumble it with our kid and our kid wants to take it and run away with it and, you know, carry on that really at the table, so to speak. And yet we're constantly trying to take that Baton back from.
[00:06:22] That's just a recipe for disaster. And so what I want you to think about here is what types of behaviors do we, as parents do not projecting this on our kids yet, but talking about like, what behaviors do we as parents do in this feeding relationship that backfire and that research again and again. We are advised to avoid as parents, because it does interfere with the feeding relationship and ultimately the feeding environment that we're trying to cultivate at mealtimes using this responsive feeding of.
[00:06:52] So three of the things that I want you to think about that are very common traps. Again, this is not to project guilt or shame on you, but it's helped make you aware of some of these things that you may be falling into, maybe without even realizing it when your child is asking for more of a given food or requesting seconds or thirds without eating some of the other foods that they've been offered.
[00:07:11] But I want you to see what situations it is not okay to limit more. And that would be if your. Behavior is one of restriction. And that's one where it's not that the kid can't have more food, there's more food available. There's plenty for everyone. There is more pasta salad in this situation for this child to have, but the parent is choosing to restrict seconds of this simply because they feel that the child needs to eat some of the other foods first.
[00:07:37] And this feels so counterintuitive to parents. And I understand this firsthand and I. With working from working with hundreds of families, but we have to realize, is this an internal or an external motivation to eat and to self-regulate because if we are regulating our child's intake of any given food that is opposing the goal that we have to raise really competent and capable eaters, who know how to self regulate, our children are very, very, very good self regulator.
[00:08:09] Where this doesn't work very well is when we, as the parents try and help them regulate what their body already knows how to do. And we step in and we begin restricting the foods that we want them to eat. And typically we're not restricting. We as parents just have a bias towards certain foods. So in this case, the mom was restricting the pasta.
[00:08:33] And I often turn this around to parents and ask, would you ever restricted, if it was the broccoli that was in the pasta salad, would you have restricted? If it was the chicken that was offered, would you have restricted any and every food and again, that may come into why maybe it's appropriate to sometimes restrict, but I always want you to think about what is your motivation in restricting, because if it is not one of the three advisable reasons to leave.
[00:08:56] Additional helpings. It likely is your problem and not your kids. And I know that can be hard to hear, but I think we subliminally think if we limit this and if we restrict them from getting more of this, maybe then they'll eat more of that. And that leads into the second behavior that I want you to be cautious to not be doing.
[00:09:17] And that is to be pressuring. It is really easy to pressure our kids to eat more of this. In order to get more of that. So all three of these really go hand in hand because it becomes a little bit of like a reward cycle where we restrict second helpings of the Leave it food. We often are pressuring our kid to eat the other food.
[00:09:38] First, say the like it, or the learning it food, or if we're not pressuring them to eat that we might be trying to bribe them and reward them and say, you can have more of this love at food. If you eat more of this, like it, or learning it food for. And all of those things hinder the feeding relationship.
[00:09:56] All of those things are road trust in the feeding relationship, because one, our child doesn't trust us to stay neutral. Our child doesn't know how we're going to respond. They don't know how we're going to respond to a given. Maybe they were allowed to have seconds of something at breakfast and then at lunch they weren't.
[00:10:14] And then at dinner, you're kind of sitting there shaky, unsure if they should have more noodles. And do you need to pressure them to eat the chicken? Should you reward them with dinner after dessert or excuse me, with dessert after dinner and our child doesn't know what to expect out of us. And so the parent child relationship has questionable trust being built.
[00:10:34] Additionally, we are not telling our kids. We trust. We trust you to trust your body. So we are not, or excuse me, we're not testing our kid. And then our kid, isn't learning to trust their, the ability to self-regulate. And so this creates so many aspects of confusion and compromise in the feeding relationship and with trust in the feeding relationship who gets to control what in the feeding relationship.
[00:11:01] And it just becomes a hot mess. And so I want you to ask yourself if you were restricting your child, Because of your own reasons again, not the reasons that we're going to get into if you're pressuring your child in order to have those seconds, or if you're bribing or rewarding them. Those three things restriction, pressure and rewards are not good reasons to limit seconds or limit your child from eating more of their preferred.
[00:11:29] We want to foster a feeding environment that trusts our child to know how to self-regulate and to know how to eat. And again, I know as parents, the first comment I often get is, well, then they're only going to eat noodles and I have a dietician and I am reminding you so what they may eat only noodles, but if you continue to erode trust and control in the feeding relationship, you are not going to help them learn to like those others.
[00:11:58] I one time heard on the comfort food podcast. It's Amy of yummy toddler food. She used to have a podcast and I don't know that it's still active, but it was called the comfort food podcast. And they had a guest on there. And I remember she said something that I don't know that I'll ever forget. And she said abundance plus permission equals discernment.
[00:12:16] And I think as parents, this is something that we have never embraced ourself. We have never let ourselves have an abundance of the foods that we love. Because we're too scared of how much we might eat or too scared that we might overeat. And we don't, we've never cultivated that discernment of how much actually satisfies us.
[00:12:36] And where is our ability to self-regulate with a given love at food, because we've never allowed herself to have the permission. We've never allowed herself to have the abundance. And so we've never given herself the opportunity to discern. So again, abundance plus permission. Equals discernment. And that's a quote from Lisa Dubrul I believe is how you pronounce her name.
[00:12:59] And I think it was just such a helpful equation for us as parents to think through. When we think about, should we limit a given love at food from our child, or should we give them an abundance as we are able to, and the permission to eat and enjoy it so that they for themselves can discern what is the right amount for right.
[00:13:21] Because most typically developing children will be able to self-regulate over the course of a day, over the course of a week, over the course of a month, what their bodies need. But as adults, we often feel so uncomfortable with this that we feel. Each and every meal we need to come in and be the regulator we need to come in and pressure or restrict or reward so that they meet certain benchmarks in what they need to eat so that their nutritional goals are met.
[00:13:50] But I want you to know that that is narrow-minded and shortsighted and nutritionally speaking. It is not going to develop a child with the eating competency that knows how to handle abundant. Of foods that are going to be available to them in the world when you are not around endless bowls of pasta, by the time they get to college and they can go to the college dining center and the permission within themselves, the self permission to eat until they are satisfied and they feel full to whatever amount that feels for them and the God-given body that they have for them to discern what is right for me, what is right for my body.
[00:14:32] And that is what. It can make us as parents as very uncomfortable in the here and now I know this firsthand. I have three kids, all of whom often want more of the love at foods when I would rather them eat the learning at foods. But I also know that my goal for them is a food freedom and a flexibility with being really healthy, competent eaters that doesn't need me to regulate for them.
[00:14:56] It doesn't need me to dictate if they can have more or not. What they need is for me. To give them my permission for me to show them that I trust them, that I trust them to regulate for their own needs, that I trust them to listen to their body. And I know that there may be times that they overindulge and that they you know, feel overly full and that teaches them that teaches them further.
[00:15:22] How to self-regulate each of us, as adults has been in that position, whether it be when we were children. Or as adults where we just tune in with our bodies, where, when we eat a certain amount of something, because we either feel the permission to, and have the abundance two or more often. Unfortunately, the reality is, is we often, as adults know the hard way because we either have such an abundance, but maybe because we haven't felt the permission to we overindulge and then we binge on something and we have to learn the harder.
[00:15:53] What feels right for our bodies, but I think each of us as moms, it can resonate with us that when we feel that food freedom to have the permission to enjoy and eat, and self-regulate the foods that were being offered, we learn, we know what's right for our body. We know what feels good. And we understand how that intuitive eating mindset and approach works.
[00:16:18] And we're able to role model that to our. And so that's really what I want to walk away. What, what I want for you to walk away with, from today is not feeling empowered in restriction or in bribery or in pressuring certain foods as if that is your win. What I want you to walk away with is that you're with.
[00:16:43] Is your child being able to discern what the right amount for them is of a given food and for you as the parent to feel comfortable and for you to harness that food freedom, that abundance is not the evil here. Abundance is not going to interfere with your child's ability to become a really healthy, adventurous, capable eater that having the abundance is a blessing that you have the resources to feed your child.
[00:17:13] For their full and that you have the means to give them enough for them to practice their own self-regulation. So if this is like a totally foreign or uncomfortable concept for you, or you still think I've just am off the rocker here, I promise you that this is an evidence-based perspective. Avoiding these feeding principle.
[00:17:34] It's across the board correlated with better outcomes in our children and then the eating habits that they develop over time. But I also want to walk you through, when can you restrict seconds? There are situations that just by necessity, you're going to need to, so in the next episode, we're going to talk to.
[00:17:52] The three things or the three situations that it is appropriate to maybe limit or say no to seconds. And then in the third episode of this three-part series, I'm going to help walk you through ways that you can set your family up for success with this three strategies that you can put into practice right away, so that you feel more comfortable yourself.
[00:18:13] Establishing this feeding dynamic and helping support your child if they do need seconds. But also, so you know that your child's not always filling up on seconds when it's maybe some of the like less nutritionally dense options. So stick with me for the next couple of weeks of episodes and put them all together and put them into practice.
[00:18:35] Thank you so much for spending the time with me today. I'm glad to. Hopefully just get to pour into you and help give you and your family some direction in your relationships with food and how you approach feeding your kids and raising them to be healthy, but also adventurous and competent eaters. I would love to come alongside you in this process at this.
[00:18:54] If you struggle with, or if the context of today's episode felt like a little bit too big of an ask to do alone, I would love to partner with you in this journey. All you need to do is go to veggies and virtue.com backslash schedule, and you can schedule a 30 minute coaching call with me where we can hop on and discuss some of the hurdles that you might be having in.
[00:19:17] Family and help you come up with some easy, actionable steps that you can implement right away so that you don't have to feel stuck anymore, but can instead begin moving forward and how you feed your family.
